TSSP: List Archives

From: "Terrell W. Fritz"
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:49:51 -0600
Subject: Re: [TSSP] Mystery of the missing loss

Hi Paul,

First I measured the bare coil again just incase something had shifted.  

Fo = 147.07
Q = 50.89

A little shift and lower Q than before.  I suspect this is due to the
condition of the ground plane deteriorating as I walk over the thin foil.

>
>Some possible experiments:
>
>1/ Split the ground plane. Already tried. Q went down,
>   score: E one, B nill.
>
>2/ Replace the toroid with a 25pF capacitor wired back to the
>   central ground point. This will have a much lower Rct than
>   130 ohms.  The toroided f1 should be reproduced, but if E
>   return loss is significant, a higher Q factor should be
>   obtained.

I set a Jennings vacuum variable capacitor to get the same frequency I
measured with a toroid.
C = 10.7 pF
Fo = 101.64
Q = 60

The C value is telling of a problem.  The wire I string to the cap has a
considerable capacitance to the ground plane.  This capacitance is in
parallel with the vac cap.

I repeated the 45 inch torroid to get a comparison and got.

F0 = 97.154
Q = 68.85

>
>3/ Extend the foil ground plane to catch more of the
>   external flux. See if the Q goes up.

I don't have an easy and 'scientific" way to do this.  the ground plane's
condition is also probably a factor now.

>
>4/ Tightly couple a shorted turn near the base of the coil
>   to artificialy add extra eddy current loss, and see if
>   the two Q factors diverge further.
>

I placed a 1/4 inch ring made from copper tubing around the base of the
coil.  It was 12.5 inches in diameter and 4 inches above the floor.

Bare coil:

Fo = 153.38
Q = 53.63

Toroid on coil:

Fo = 101.60
Q = 80.89

The inductance of the coil without the ring was 75.0mH and 70.4mH with the
ring.

The ring seems to be adding a low loss energy storage element to the
system.  Perhaps a complete circle ground plane does too.  Much as a
capacitor stores energy as voltage, the ring stores energy as current.

I am not sure I have great trust in further experiments with the ground
plane.  It is starting the shred and such.  No longer a stable element...

Cheers,

	Terry


>I'm sure there must be some cunningexperimental tricks to
>decouple these two potential sources of loss, and if we can
>do so unabmiguously then that would be a great step forward.
>
>Regards All,
>--
>Paul Nicholson,
>Manchester, UK.
>--


Maintainer Paul Nicholson, paul@abelian.demon.co.uk.