TSSP: List Archives

From: "Terrell W. Fritz"
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:59:12 -0700
Subject: Re: [TSSP] NSVPI - Latter Results

Hi Malcolm and Paul,

My paper at:

http://63.229.238.62/TeslaCoils/MyPapers/spark1/sparkgap.html

has some waveforms in it that may be of use.  I also included a bunch of
raw data with that paper:

http://63.229.238.62/TeslaCoils/MyPapers/MyPapers.htm

"Tesla Coil Spark Gap Operation Analyzed at High Frequency 
Word97 
Raw data 1-8 9-16 17-24 25-32 33-40 41-42"

The text file explains the 42 scope photos.

Cheers,

	Terry



At 10:36 PM 11/5/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Malcolm Wwrote:
>
>> ...If you buy the notion suggested by a crude analysis of that
>> behaviour that gap loss is predominantly V.I rather than I^2.R
>> and that Vconducting is approaching constancy, you can see why.
>
>Yes, I see, it's the small constant Vgap. I suppose by definition
>the gap loss must be V.I, so long as V changes sign promptly when
>I does, ie we can ignore the self inductance and capacitance of
>the gap. Also by definition I^2.R applies, so it's not a case of
>one rather than the other - its just that we have to accept that
>R is a function R(I). 
>
>A couple more questions,
>
>Recently Barry posted:
>
>> ...J.C.Martin in the book "J.C.Martin on Pulsed power" 
>> ... he gives the formula for spark gap impedance as
>
>> ((1.7 * L)/ r) + Z
>> where L is the inductance of the spark channel,
>> r is the length of the resistive phase, and
>> Z is the impedance on Ohms of the circuit driving the spark gap.
>
>> ... he gives his famous formula for the resistive phase of spark
>> formation as
>> (88/(Z**(1/3) * F**(4/3)))  * (rho/rho-zero)**(1/2)
>> where the time is in nanoseconds,
>> Z is the impedance driving the plasma channel in Ohms,
>> F is the field along the chammel in units of 10 KV per centimeter,
>> rho is the density of gas used, and
>> rho_zero is the density of air at STP. 
>> Rho will change with bang rate.
>
>Let me guess that the resistive phase is a short period of constant
>resistance during which the arc gets established. It looks to be on
>the order of nanoseconds and is presumably relevant to fast 
>pulse discharges in accelerator and fusion supplies. I take it we
>can ignore this resistive phase, since tesla gaps conduct for many
>tens of microseconds?
>
>I guess it ought to be relatively straightforward, given a
>digital scope, to capture and store the V/I curves for a 
>range of gap lengths and widths. I take it they would come out
>looking a bit like two diodes back to back in parallel? Are
>the V/I curves a function of frequency too, or would one set of
>curves do for all?
>
>If such curves exist, are they 'square' enough so that a gap
>can be reliably characterised by a 'forward voltage drop' which
>is just a function of the gap dimensions and independent of 
>current?
>
>It seems to me that such a set of curves would provide the
>essential raw material from which an effective loss resistance
>(ie an integrated loss per cycle divided by the mean square
>current) could be established for a given gap.
>
>> My expts also suggest (and appear to be well supported by the
>> experiences of others) that as one moves to the high L/C - high V
>> regime, quenching type #2 (avoiding power ARCS) becomes more and
>> more of a bugbear. John Freau is one excellent experimenter whose
>> experiments with high L/C primaries have seen his efficiencies climb
>> markedly.
>
>Thanks, was wondering about that. Is there a primary L/C
>record holder I wonder? I've been thinking about rigging up
>a high energy single shot primary, using a voltage multiplier
>to accumulate about 60kV across the tank.
>
>Cheers,
>--
>Paul Nicholson,
>Manchester, UK.
>--


Maintainer Paul Nicholson, paul@abelian.demon.co.uk.