From: "Barton B. Anderson"
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:58:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [TSSP] Top Voltage
--Boundary_(ID_IENRK/cR3H5awoMsiWFkOw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Terrell W. Fritz" wrote: > Wha! Ya think I sent Bart a piece of junk or something :o)))) Accuracy is > +1% -0%. He may want to check his "scope" against a battery, meter and all, > but no worries about the Pearson probe ;-)) I did check it before I sent it > too ;-)) Actually, in my mind, the calibration is needed. Not for the Pearson, but for me scope against the Pearson. Paul, Tonight I did some work on my 8.5" coil (base height adjustments are precision now on both sec and pri). Because my smaller 4.5" coil is already in place and hooked up, I think I'll start measurements with it. After my work on the larger coil, I rolled it to a corner of the garage and took dimensional measurements as well as an Fres (shorted gap) and Fres (open gap). I think I better go ahead and list this coils data for you. Nothing will be changing on it. BTW, this coil was wound via winding machine, turns counted via prox/counter setup, and measurements taken before applying spar varnish. Dimensions (inches): sec inside radius = 2.26925 sec outside radius = 2.26925 sec bottom height = 13.835 sec top height = 34 sec turns = 900 (exact) sec awg = 24 pri inside radius = 2.985 pri outside radius = 6.975 pri bottom height = 13.835 pri top height = 13.835 pri turns = 8.4 (tap) pri wire diam. = 0.25 toroid major diam. = 19.25 toroid minor diam. = 4.5 toroid center height = 36.5 disc minor diam = n/a disc major diam = 11.25 disc center height = 37 (rest on inside of toroid edge slightly above center) wall & ceiling height = 150 wall, ceiling, and ground radius = 103 average (Paul, it's appearing to me that, unlike ET6 where the nearest wall works, geotc performs better with with an average radius (For this case, I measured the radius of the 4 walls in the garage to center of coil and averaged to 103". Works in Fantc - the nearest wall measurement falls off. I'd bet others will find this as well. An assumption on my part. I'll have to change one of the notes in Fantc that calls out nearest wall to "average radius"). Anyway, I took Fres measurements w/everthing in position (drove base with generator, identified Fres via scope probe distanced 2x coil length of coil, and read Fres via known good frequency meter) : Gap shorted = 248kHz (two mode frequency's still need to be done - too late tonight). Gap open = 238kHz Later, I came in and popped open Fantc. Below is the Freq output data. Seems to be working! This was the first "real-time" test I've made on Fantc. Love the fact that I measured first, computed later - I mean, input this = output that!! Wow!! But note, this is the result with average wall, gnd, ceil radius as mentioned above (103"). The nearest wall radius is 64", next is 100", next is 110, furthest is 140". My walls (and ceiling) are thin, so I'll have to wait to see how it works on other coils to be sure here. With 64", it outputs 236.17kHz. With the average, it's right on the money. If others are way off with average, possible the good result would be my thin walls hardly affecting the coil. I wanted to point this out so others can do the same sort of check. BTW, the measured MMC cap size is 0.025uF. Primary tapped at 8.4 turns and about 7.6% detuned high on Lp. Total turns on primary is 9.25 (so 1 extra turn setting out there). I setup a simple 2 electrode 1.255" sphere gap (adjustable). Also, during lamps testing, I have a note of an Ls reading of 18.67mH. Seems meter (Wavetek 27XT) is reading nearer to Les than Ldc. Wonder if others have noticed this with their Wavetek. Getting close to doing base current measurements. Maybe tomorrow. Take care, Bart --------------------------------------------------------- Computing ..... please wait Secondary Resonant Frequency: 238.22 kHz Secondary Voltages and Currents I[0]=1.01 I[1]=1.01 I[2]=1.01 I[3]=1.01 I[4]=.99 I[5]=.97 I[6]=.95 I[7]=.93 I[8]=.91 I[9]=.9 V[0]=457.14 V[1]=1784.69 V[2]=5753.15 V[3]=9965.79 V[4]=14199.17 V[5]=18368.38 V[6]=22399.73 V[7]=26117.29 V[8]=27350.74 V[9]=27771.87 Energy Storage Inductance (Lee): 18.23 mH Effective Series Inductance (Les): 18.55 mH Low Frequency Inductance (Ldc): 19.28 mH Energy Storage Capacitance (Cee): 23.45 pF Effective Shunt Capacitance (Ces): 24.42 pF Low Frequency Capacitance (Cdc): 36.46 pF Total Topload Capacitance (Ctop): 20.25 pF Run Complete Time elapsed: 61.7 secs --Boundary_(ID_IENRK/cR3H5awoMsiWFkOw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "Terrell W. Fritz" wrote:Wha! Ya think I sent Bart a piece of junk or something :o)))) Accuracy is<big grin> Actually, in my mind, the calibration is needed. Not for the Pearson, but for me scope against the Pearson.
+1% -0%. He may want to check his "scope" against a battery, meter and all,
but no worries about the Pearson probe ;-)) I did check it before I sent it
too ;-))Paul,
Tonight I did some work on my 8.5" coil (base height adjustments are precision now on both sec and pri).Because my smaller 4.5" coil is already in place and hooked up, I think I'll start measurements with it. After my work on the larger coil, I rolled it to a corner of the garage and took dimensional measurements as well as an Fres (shorted gap) and Fres (open gap). I think I better go ahead and list this coils data for you. Nothing will be changing on it.
BTW, this coil was wound via winding machine, turns counted via prox/counter setup, and measurements taken before applying spar varnish.
Dimensions (inches):
sec inside radius = 2.26925
sec outside radius = 2.26925
sec bottom height = 13.835
sec top height = 34
sec turns = 900 (exact)
sec awg = 24pri inside radius = 2.985
pri outside radius = 6.975
pri bottom height = 13.835
pri top height = 13.835
pri turns = 8.4 (tap)
pri wire diam. = 0.25toroid major diam. = 19.25
toroid minor diam. = 4.5
toroid center height = 36.5disc minor diam = n/a
disc major diam = 11.25
disc center height = 37 (rest on inside of toroid edge slightly above center)wall & ceiling height = 150
wall, ceiling, and ground radius = 103 average
(Paul, it's appearing to me that, unlike ET6 where the nearest wall works, geotc performs better with with an average radius (For this case, I measured the radius of the 4 walls in the garage to center of coil and averaged to 103". Works in Fantc - the nearest wall measurement falls off. I'd bet others will find this as well. An assumption on my part. I'll have to change one of the notes in Fantc that calls out nearest wall to "average radius").Anyway, I took Fres measurements w/everthing in position (drove base with generator, identified Fres via scope probe distanced 2x coil length of coil, and read Fres via known good frequency meter) :
Gap shorted = 248kHz (two mode frequency's still need to be done - too late tonight).
Gap open = 238kHzLater, I came in and popped open Fantc. Below is the Freq output data.
Seems to be working! This was the first "real-time" test I've made on Fantc. Love the fact that I measured first, computed later - I mean, input this = output that!! Wow!!But note, this is the result with average wall, gnd, ceil radius as mentioned above (103"). The nearest wall radius is 64", next is 100", next is 110, furthest is 140". My walls (and ceiling) are thin, so I'll have to wait to see how it works on other coils to be sure here. With 64", it outputs 236.17kHz. With the average, it's right on the money. If others are way off with average, possible the good result would be my thin walls hardly affecting the coil. I wanted to point this out so others can do the same sort of check.
BTW, the measured MMC cap size is 0.025uF. Primary tapped at 8.4 turns and about 7.6% detuned high on Lp. Total turns on primary is 9.25 (so 1 extra turn setting out there). I setup a simple 2 electrode 1.255" sphere gap (adjustable).
Also, during lamps testing, I have a note of an Ls reading of 18.67mH. Seems meter (Wavetek 27XT) is reading nearer to Les than Ldc. Wonder if others have noticed this with their Wavetek.
Getting close to doing base current measurements. Maybe tomorrow.
Take care,
Bart---------------------------------------------------------
Computing ..... please waitSecondary Resonant Frequency: 238.22 kHz
Secondary Voltages and Currents
I[0]=1.01
I[1]=1.01
I[2]=1.01
I[3]=1.01
I[4]=.99
I[5]=.97
I[6]=.95
I[7]=.93
I[8]=.91
I[9]=.9
V[0]=457.14
V[1]=1784.69
V[2]=5753.15
V[3]=9965.79
V[4]=14199.17
V[5]=18368.38
V[6]=22399.73
V[7]=26117.29
V[8]=27350.74
V[9]=27771.87Energy Storage Inductance (Lee): 18.23 mH
Effective Series Inductance (Les): 18.55 mH
Low Frequency Inductance (Ldc): 19.28 mH
Energy Storage Capacitance (Cee): 23.45 pF
Effective Shunt Capacitance (Ces): 24.42 pF
Low Frequency Capacitance (Cdc): 36.46 pF
Total Topload Capacitance (Ctop): 20.25 pF
Run Complete
Time elapsed: 61.7 secs
--Boundary_(ID_IENRK/cR3H5awoMsiWFkOw)--
Maintainer Paul Nicholson, paul@abelian.demon.co.uk.